Understanding Your Rhythm
In the first episode of the freshly rebranded Collective Conversations (formerly FAFO), Jane Ekholm returns to discuss neurodivergence in business, mindset, and the importance of understanding personal work rhythms. From tackling perfectionism to creating boundaries that provide clarity rather than walls, Jane shares insights from her 20 years of business experience. The conversation explores how different brains work, the evolution of workplace flexibility, and the power of accepting your unique approach to productivity.
Business/Professional References:
Concepts/Terms Explained:
Neurodivergent vs. Neurotypical
ADHD/ADD
Time boxing
Growth mindset
Boundaries as clarity rather than walls
Notable Quote: "Boundaries are not walls, they're clarity."
Upcoming Event Mentioned:
You can also listen on your favourite podcast apps, including Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Episode Transcript
Christine: Welcome to Collective Conversations. The Women in Business Podcast
Emily: formally fuck around and find out.
Emily: I'm Emily.
Christine: And I'm Chris.
Emily: And we are here today in the wonderful G Studios. Podcasting studio. I said studio a few times up in the central coast in Ttra with the wonderful return guest. Jane Ekholm. Did I say your name right?
Jane: Hi ladies. Yes. Jane Ekholm from the Jane Edit.
Emily: I love it. Welcome. Welcome. We are so excited to have you back.
Christine: Absolutely.
Emily: The first episode. Thanks for coming today.
Jane: Oh, this is my third time. I'm so excited.
Emily: I know you're one of, you're part of the team. Yeah. Season. Season to tried and tested. Um, and you are our very.
Emily: First guest on our very newly branded podcast.
Jane: Excellent.
Emily: Which is exciting.
Jane: Yeah. I love the new name.
Emily: Thanks.
Christine: Thank you.
Emily: We've tried really hard to pull it in line with the rest of the Yeah,
Christine: no, that's right. Well, you know what? We had an awesome time with. You know, um, our fuck around, fuck around.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Um, and find out.
Christine: And we literally did do a lot of fucking around to find out how to do a podcast in the early days, but we've grown up with a big girl pants on,
Emily: definitely
Christine: we know kind of what we're doing. Um, and, um, it's. Nice that we are now able to pull it in line with the Women in Business Collective.
Jane: Well that's probably what the first year was for.
Emily: Yes.
Jane: To fuck around and find out. It's kind of perfect.
Emily: Yeah, exactly right. And it developed like we never had the collective, when we started it was just podcast and then the collective was born of the podcast. So it makes sense to kind of jimmy it all around a bit, to smosh it back into what we needed to be so
Jane: awesome.
Emily: It is very exciting. We're very excited to, to chat to you too, because you've got, um, some amazing content. When people hear this, it will be post our conference in May.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, and we're going to continue the conversation around those topics and mindset, and I just love hearing you talk about the A DHD elements to business.
Emily: Like
Jane: it's from from one A DHD girl to another, isn't it?
Emily: I mean, I was. Like the first time I was sitting there being like, yes, I have that. Yes, this too, and tick, tick. And I was like, okay,
Jane: I'm certainly not here to diagnose you, but we can,
Emily: but I'm definitely undiagnosed.
Jane: We can tick some boxes.
Emily: Um, definitely made me be like, okay, cool.
Emily: I understand a bit better now. It's great.
Jane: It's all about understanding yourself actually. And that's. You know, the gift, isn't it?
Emily: Yeah, exactly. Right.
Christine: And it's also understanding when you work with someone
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: Um, of, you know, understanding how they work compared to you.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And what, and not necessarily having to make lots of changes, but maybe it's some allowances and understanding.
Jane: Absolutely, yes.
Christine: And also. Not having so much guilt for ages I
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: You know, Em would be just powering through things. Mm-hmm. And I'm going, oh God, I couldn't get outta bed, or I have to go to bed or something. I would have a level of guilt.
Jane: How do you, with someone,
Christine: I couldn't keep her.
Jane: I take that.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Yeah. That's s been a big one for us.
Christine: My value of these conversations with you is just that understanding from my perspective, whether I'm working with my biz partner or a client.
Jane: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, it does give you some clarity into how other minds work. Yes. Neurodivergency is a spectrum.
Jane: Yeah. Uh, so some of us are louder than others, or quieter than others. Um, and yeah, it, it, um, just gives you a lot of perspective.
Emily: And it's interesting too, how different people present
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: As well. Like, I've been really. It's been on my mind a lot. Mm-hmm. Since we talked about it for myself, but then also looking at it at my children and seeing, especially my son.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And also like I'm noticing elements of my daughter that I'm like, it could be, it could be.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But, 'cause she's a girl, she's gonna present very differently to,
Jane: extremely, differently to your son.
Emily: And then I'm trying to think like what I was like as a little one and was I doing these things as well?
Emily: And I. Think Yes,
Jane: absolutely. But I also think that your kids are, are quite young still.
Emily: Yes. They're still developing.
Jane: Yeah. So, but they're joyfully unmasked right now.
Emily: Yeah. Yes.
Jane: Which means that they're just living life and having a great time. Yeah.
Emily: So, so in saying that, my, my daughter has got some really big feelings.
Emily: Like, oh, she's had an anxiety attack already and she's only five. Oh. Yes. Um, and trying to, uh, she puts a lot of weight on herself.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I don't know where that comes from, 'cause I certainly don't
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Have expectations of her. Neither does my husband. And it's, she's, and I think it's a ricochet effect of how chaotic my son is.
Emily: She wants to be the perfect one,
Jane: Uhhuh,
Emily: because he is the chaos. Yeah. And she tries so hard, but the second she does something or loses her ability to like hold it together, it's like the world has crushed her.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And then with change and everything she went through, she had a panic attack, um, at the end of last year.
Emily: It was her birthday, her last day of preschool.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And then starting kindergarten, this. Year. So big school was that big transition.
Jane: Very overwhelming period.
Emily: Yeah. And not seeing all her friends anymore that she'd been with for the last three and a bit years. And she knew all of this was coming and she kept wetting the bed and kept having, like one night she woke up, had wet the bed and was like, my heart's gonna explode.
Emily: And was like panicking and like freaking out.
Jane: Wow.
Emily: And it was a panic attack. Mm-hmm. And like trying to explain that to my husband was also a fun job. 'cause he is just like. Old enough that he's like, Ugh, doesn't whatever. Like, I don't understand. He doesn't get it. Like he doesn't it
Jane: Oh, old enough. As in generationally wise?
Emily: Well, he, I mean, he not
Jane: old enough be married to you.
Emily: He's not old. He's nine. He 10 years, almost 10 years older than me.
Jane: Got you.
Emily: But whilst. Like, I feel like that doesn't always mean the same thing. He's got an old school way of thinking.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, I've noticed that. I think it was to do with his upbringing as well.
Jane: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: And it's the whole like mental health,
Jane: but also not having perhaps it, you know, been around him.
Emily: Yes.
Jane: Which to be honest, I applaud someone having not gone through it before. And so I take it from all, they haven't had any horrible things happen in their life, so it's actually a nice thing.
Jane: Yes. And then you educate them.
Emily: Yeah. And he, and like to be fair, he is, um, he's. Taken it on pretty well.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like he's listened and he's tried. He tries.
Jane: Yep.
Emily: So I'm appreciative of that. But it's interesting seeing, like, I wish she, I actually made a pact with her the other day. I'm like, we, you and I both need to try and be happier.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like we need to promise each other that we're gonna try and be happy every day. 'cause she's always upset and she's always, even if it's been wonderful. Yeah. One thing can just be like, this was the worst day ever. And I know there's a bit of kid dramatic in there. She's, they're both my children.
Emily: They're very dramatic.
Jane: It's drama.
Emily: Exactly. But she, she's quick to see the negative and I knew I used to be like that as a kid and I think I still probably am. As
Jane: we probably still are. Yeah. Yeah. The perfectionism starts early in your family.
Emily: Yeah, it does do. And it worries me that she's so little. I'm like, just have fun.
Emily: Like don't worry about it. But she's so like, she just can't not, yeah. And it worry worries me so much. Poor little thing. I'm like, it's fine. Don't, she spent the whole weekend cleaning the house.
Jane: Oh my goodness.
Emily: Like voluntarily cleaning up.
Jane: Yes.
Christine: Oh my gosh.
Emily: And then was like, mum, can you come and look at what I've done?
Jane: That's amazing.
Emily: And then I don't know if she's angling for pocket money. She probably was a little bit, but like I was like, you don't have, she goes, oh God, I just wanna stop cleaning. I was like, babe, just stop cleaning. Like you don't have to clean.
Jane: She not mirroring something over there or
Emily: probably
Jane: what's going on.
Emily: I'm a bit of a.
Christine: Yes, yes. His rage cleaner over here.
Emily: I have an extreme rage cleaner, I'll admit. I do like, like the house pretty clean.
Jane: She's being diagnosed obviously two seconds later.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. That is definitely me. But I'm like, I also dunno how to stop like. Her picking that stuff,
Jane: you, you probably need to start by seeing some, uh, seeking some therapy yourself and
Emily: probably get a proper diagnosis
Jane: and then, um, and then having a chat to your daughter.
Emily: Yes. Yeah. I think, but it is interesting like with Chris and I too, 'cause that's what Chris described is exactly right. You know, like. There are times where I can just sit down and demolish so much work.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And it's that balance of like, just because I can, it doesn't mean you have to. Like, there's no expect I'm just doing it 'cause I can, it's not, there's no expectation either way.
Emily: And it's, it's been an interesting juggle. I. As well. And Chris deals with my manic pretty, pretty well.
Jane: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have, um, neurodivergent clients too. So for me, um, even though I'm neurodivergent, uh, it's interesting to watch somebody else from the outside, like a client, um, understanding their highs and lows, um, how they actually absorb information, how they'll take it off you, how long it takes them to get back to you.
Jane: So there's lots and lots of tips and tricks that you can use with your clients.
Emily: Yeah, and I think that's valuable because. There's a lot of people out there that have to work with crazy people like us.
Christine: Not crazy.
Jane: Not crazy.
Emily: You know, it's interesting though. I kind of thought everyone, um, knew what neurodivergent
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Meant.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But in our group chat
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: For the conference coming up, I had one of the speakers send me a message
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Privately being like. What?
Jane: Oh, that's actually a really, really good tip.
Christine: What is NeuroD? Divergent dive, Jane?
Jane: Uh, it's literally just the opposite to neurotypical. So a neurotypical person is, um, somebody that is normal.
Jane: So you know what is normal, how long's a piece of yes. Uh, so it's just basically the behaviors that I think that we were, um, told to emulate, whether it be from our parents, through our school, through social interactions. So, um, you know, not being too loud, not being too quiet, um, you know, so it's just something in between.
Jane: Yeah. So then neurodivergent is anyone with, um, I, I guess a diagnosis, although you don't have to be formally diagnosed, so it, it encompasses things like autism, A-D-H-D-A-D-D, or. H-H-D-A-D. Can't say that one.
Christine: A lot of acronyms.
Emily: Yeah.
Jane: Yeah. Um, and I'm sure quite a few others, but they're basically the ones that, um, I have experience with.
Jane: So they're the ones that are top, top of mind for me.
Emily: Excellent. I explained that exactly as you just said it, so
Jane: Excellent.
Emily: I got it right because I was trying to be like, yes, the spectrum, like it's the spectrum. People that spectrum. I, I hate using spicy, but I was like, people often call it. Spicy, yes.
Jane: Spicy brain
Emily: to be like to understand it. So I am glad I explained that correctly, but I was interested 'cause I hadn't. Really thought that there might be people that not, wouldn't really understand what that meant.
Jane: You know what? I think that, um, the term neurodivergent really came at the forefront, just that only a few years ago, um, on TikTok, to be honest.
Jane: Yes. You know, let's go back to our good TikTok days, um, because it just became a conversation that suddenly. Was, you know, no longer taboo to, to understand that you had, um, just a, like you said, like a little spicy brain, a brain that doesn't quite fit that normative framework that we were told is the way that we had to behave.
Christine: Yes.
Emily: You know, it's interesting too, I've noticed like you share my love of reading.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: Absolutely. A lead readerly and I've been noticing a lot of books, um, are actually talking about it. More or building it into their storyline, given that they're fictional books. But I just finished one and it was about one of the characters had OCD.
Emily: And so it actually touched on that and the diagnosis of that and the spectrum of that and how like she managed it. And I thought that was quite interesting too. Like it's, it's obviously enough on the forefront of people's minds lately that it's starting to work its way into almost everything to make it much more acceptable.
Emily: But then it's interesting when I look at someone, like I get like my husband who's got a bit of old school thinking.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And you know, the amount of times I've heard him say. Oh, when I was a kid, you know, this, this just didn't happen. Like, or it just didn't exist. And it's like, 'cause you didn't talk about it like no, it was there.
Emily: But like we all had kids at school that were like the naughty child.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I look back at those ones that are so obvious in my mind for when I was in high school.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And it's like, no, this guy's,
Christine: they had a did so, um. You know, my brother had a friend over once and he just wasn't allowed to drink red cordial or have tomato sauce because
Emily: Yeah.
Emily: 'cause there's chemicals in it,
Christine: hyperactive kind of thing. Um, and I think yes, in today.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: You know? Yes. Hyperactivity is AD, HD h she
Jane: a hundred percent. Yeah. It's so funny that you said, you know, looking back and, and looking at the naughty child. So you were explaining then, uh, young boy. Yeah. Full stop.
Emily: Yeah. It's always boys.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: Because the girls are different.
Jane: So the girls would've displayed it so much differently. They would've perhaps even been quiet.
Emily: Mm-hmm.
Jane: Uh, they would've probably shown a lot of creativity.
Emily: Mm-hmm.
Jane: Um, they were probably not morning people.
Emily: Yes. Hello.
Jane: Um, and they were probably, um, showing a lot of anxiety and overwhelm, uh, because Yeah.
Jane: Their, their brain just didn't quite click the way that it's meant to in school. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. And it's funny how, you know, I, I like. Reading about people who find out later in life
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: That they have something like that.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And then going, oh, you mean other people's brains don't work like this?
Jane: Oh.
Emily: A concept of like, wait, do you all not, does not, does everyone not think like this? Like,
Jane: especially I find with, um, reading things about autism, so I'm not autistic. Yeah. Um, however, I have some, um, people close to me that are, and they often describe, you know, social situations. Um, finding it really difficult.
Jane: You know, I know what I'm. It's expected of me in a social situation so I can mask and be perceived as neurotypical. Um, and for me, that's not that it baffles me that someone just can't go up to a new person and say, hi, how are you? And start a conversation.
Emily: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
Jane: So, yeah. So it, it's in every, I guess, part of.
Jane: Everything that we do.
Christine: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: It's really interesting. It's fascinating. It's when it comes to working.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And mindset.
Jane: Yes. Mindset.
Emily: Yeah. That lovely little thing just to wrap us back to what we were.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: Because we love a good tangent and we're so bad at it. Um, but mindset is also something Chris and I have been talking a lot about lately.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: In preparation for our com upcoming conference.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, and it's something that, you know, the more you think about it, it's so important. To everything
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: That we do and our ability to succeed in our ability to get up in the morning.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: You know? Um, and when it comes to business, it is so vital.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: And it's definitely something Chris and I've had firsthand experience of lately.
Christine: Absolutely.
Emily: The landscape of our businesses has been definitely a fight to try and keep
Christine: Yeah. Lots of ups and downs. Yeah. I know myself personally, I needed to have a real, um, purposeful mind, mind shift.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Um.
Christine: Um, earlier in the year.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And doing that has actually really helped, you know, it brought back the joy.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Um, and peace and momentum.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Um, so yes.
Jane: That's lovely.
Christine: I know it's fantastic, but how is it a game changer for. Someone you know who is neuro diversion. What are the um, the hints and the tips and suggestions?
Jane: Oh, just in general,
Emily: let's talk about those neurotypicals.
Jane: Okay. I mean, what is mindset? Well, exactly whatcha talking about. It could very well be such a foreign concept as someone as Neurodivergency.
Emily: That's true.
Jane: Mindset is just not about being positive all of the time. No, absolutely not. Um, mindset encompasses so many things and they're from.
Jane: Things that we don't even expect. So it's wellbeing, it's boundaries, it's about having a growth mindset. Yep. Um, and it's about how we bounce back from failure and then how we also face our fears and then how we move through self-doubt. So as a woman in business, I think that those are really important things. Yeah.
Jane: Because we are forever the imposter.
Emily: Oh yeah.
Jane: Working as a woman in business, in a small business particularly, and, and particularly for ourselves. So, um, it's basically, it encompasses a whole lot of things that we really need to talk about and think about. Yeah. But they don't have to be really big changes to make, in order to make a really big, um, big change in our lives.
Jane: Like you just said, you just had a really long, hard look at yourself, a big conversation.
Christine: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: It can be anything though, like I've, I've had. You know, I was saying to Chris late last week that I've been feeling a bit flat with one of our businesses.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I couldn't quite pinpoint why.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And it was more just like we, we kind of talked it out and it was like, okay, I feel like I need, we need to change, like change it up a little bit, not drastically.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Just enough that it kind of feels a bit fresh.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Again, to start again.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Kind of thing. And it's little things like even if like all we did was just update our colour palette.
Emily: And while that like
Jane: music to my ears
Emily: colour, I'm a really, really big colour person.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like literally, I'm a vibrant walking colour right now.
Jane: You are a rave of sunshine today.
Emily: Usually I'm pretty, it's super V or black and a hobo, so I yoyo between the two. But I love color, but colour holds a lot to me.
Emily: Like it's quite important. I don't, can't even know how to explain it properly.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But like it, it really can influence. How I feel.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And sometimes even when I meet people, I just get this wave of like, you're a yellow person or you are like a color. Like it's a bit of a vibe thing.
Jane: Well there's whole, um, there's whole sections of psychology around, uh, red colour theory.
Jane: Well, colour, colour theory I find it so fascinatingly. Yeah. And like even just, and it was funny 'cause we were going through colours and Chris and I have a very different. Love of colour. Mm-hmm. Like Chris is very dark and moody Colours. Yes. I'm very bright and vibrant colours.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: We're very different. Which is a nice thing to be different in because we are similar in a lot of ways.
Christine: So it's nice to have some differences, but when it comes to when we are obviously mutually sharing our business, like we went through colour palettes and I was like, no, this doesn't feel right.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: It doesn't feel right. Mm-hmm. And we went through so many, we finally got one. I was like, yep, this feels better.
Jane: I cannot wait to, this feels good. This is so exciting
Christine: for me. Like, um. I knew that it be, was very important to Emily.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: I knew it was, and, um,
Emily: Chris would've been fine to just leave it.
Christine: But in saying that, when I was looking at the Rejig website with the new color, it felt lighter.
Jane: Okay. That's interesting.
Christine: Like in a physical light, this kind of thing.
Emily: Yeah. I can't explain it, but I felt, I, I kept feeling like. Our brand was old.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And while it's not.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I, I love our, I'm funny with fonts as well. I'm a bit of a font girl. Of course. Yeah. And whilst I was like, okay, I don't really wanna change the font because I really like our logo, it works really well.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: We get lots of compliments on it. I like it. So I was like, okay, maybe it's the colors. And I was like, maybe that is what is making me feel just old.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And like fuddy duddy, you know, I just felt it like it was a bit funny duddy it. I don't, and I cannot explain to you why this suddenly hit me like
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: I need to change this 'cause it's been fine and I just had this massive, and I think it's because we rebranded our gifting business,
Jane: Uhhuh
Emily: and seeing what we could have done, like we didn't change it drastically, we just changed a word on it, on the business name, but seeing it in a different format made me go.
Emily: Yeah, it was really the font. It was, it was really the font and I was just kind of like, yep. Yeah, it just suddenly felt really old.
Jane: And I think you were just writing an essay here on your own neuro divergency, you know?
Emily: Yeah, I know. And I think it was also 'cause I was feeling a bit disengaged Yep. With our business, because we have gone through a phase.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: You know, cost of living has become a big problem for a lot of our clients.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And we've had a lot of our clients. Drop off. Yeah. 'cause I can't afford it anymore.
Jane: Oh, absolutely.
Emily: And it's hard for us too, to try and maintain us to pay our expenses.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: You know, we're in this massive business development stage now because we need to recoup what we've lost.
Jane: It's, yeah. It's a really interesting time for a lot of people, and I, I've always said this, so another part of my life is marketing, so I love. Branding. It's my love for marketing. So good. Um, and, um, you know, people come to me and ask for logos. They ask for branding, branding guidelines, and I always say to them that it's, for lack of a better word, a journey.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
Jane: Your brand doesn't actually have to stay the same one year to the next. Yeah. Um, people have. Some people have very strict ideas that this is gonna be my brand and my color and my logo and everything for the next, you know, decade. Yeah. And it's not, and that's okay. You look at Coca-Cola, oh, they've changed at Pepsi's.
Jane: Just rebranded, I think. Look at you look at cars or Oh yeah. You know
Emily: Kia, Kia is my best example. Yeah. The Kia logo. Um, you know how, I mean, again, we're talking about perception.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Chris and I had a whole conversation on the way up about perception. It's been playing in my world a little bit at the minute, and you look at car brands and the perception of branding in a car.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Often it makes people assume things
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Based on the brand that you have and that is behind that brand. But I look at Kia and I say
Jane: it's called marketing.
Emily: Yes. It's really smart marketing.
Christine: Yes. It is.
Emily: And I look at Kia and I see their old logos and I look at their new ones and I'm like, it's fucking so much sleeker.
Jane: They've stepped up.
Emily: It's really, and it makes the car look like it's a more expensive car.
Jane: Very, very similar conversation I had with my husband the other day. He said, oh, look at the new Kia. And I went, oh, isn't that like a nda?
Emily: Yeah, you associated right.
Jane: And he said, not anymore. They've really upped their game.
Jane: Here you go. We're on the same page, right?
Emily: Yeah, it's, it really is. My son is just going through this thing at the moment where he is. My heart husband works for Subaru, so he is a Subaru guy. He's a car mechanic. Used to be now a corporate, but he is a car guy and my son is just starting to recognize brands.
Jane: Wow.
Emily: So we walk through the soap supermarket, he like, that's a Tesla, that's a, this mom, what's that mean? What does MG mean? What does BYO mean? And there's all these like new brands and we're trying to, he's like, what brand is an mg? And we're like. M mg.
Jane: It's an mg.
Emily: Yeah.
Jane: But back in the day it was the mg No, absolutely not.
Emily: I'm trying to explain it. And my husband's very like, typical car guy, doesn't like certain brands and I love Audi and I would, my dream car is an Audi.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I, my son learnt that pretty quickly. 'cause it's so easy with the rings. Mm. But my husband hates anything that's like European made. So he'll be like, what Audi?
Jane: Really?
Emily: And so, um, he's like, Harry's like, mum , it's an Audi. And then my husband's like, crap cup.
Jane: I'm getting a great picture.
Emily: European taxi.
Jane: Your husband? I have a European husband, so I'm a little bit taken aback. But that comment.
Emily: Subaru, it's Japanese, he likes his Japanese. Asian cars.
Jane: Well, we do have a Subaru, so that's okay.
Emily: They're good cars.
Jane: Um, coming back to you, just what you're talking about, about being fresh around branding and things like that, um, it's true. That's why marketing exists, is so that it stays fresh, it stays relevant, which I think that you were saying that you were feeling a little bit old,
Emily: fuddy duddy.
Jane: You are just, you are just not feeling as relevant as you want to be.
Jane: So, and you know, you've gotta keep up with the times and the kids and the new trends Yeah. And, and all of that. So, um, yeah. That's definitely something that you can do to help fix your mindset Yeah. Is to get some sort of positive relevance back into your brand and what you like to do. Yeah.
Emily: And I think it was also tied with like, we've had a rough year.
Emily: With client-wise.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: We've had a really rough client for a while and like walking away and choosing a boundary on that co coincided with a bunch of other clients struggling financially.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: So I think the mindset piece has been around that too. And it's that I almost feel like it's a blank slate in a sense of how do we want to define ourselves?
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: How do, do we want to keep going the way we're going? Has this been working? Hasn't. Not been working. How do I feel about it? How does Chris feel about it? How do we work that together and how do we find a way forward that feels right for both of us
Christine: Yeah.
Emily: To then develop on. Yeah. And that's kind of where I felt we were.
Emily: And it like, it ties into, and that's where the fresh colours and stuff come from. 'cause we, it's like do we want to fully reinvent the wheel or do we just. Tweak what we have
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: To fit where we think we want to be and what we wanna do. Yep.
Jane: And I think you've made the right decision by doing a bit of tweaking right now.
Emily: Yeah.
Jane: Uh, because it's hard times. Yes. You know, completely reinventing the wheel's gonna cost dollars.
Christine: Yes.
Emily: And we don't have time for that.
Jane: No, we don't have time for that. But the one thing that I have learned about boundaries, this is hopefully this will blow you away. Ready? Can't Please. Boundaries are not walls.
Jane: They're clarity.
Emily: I do. I love that.
Christine: I do love that.
Jane: So as soon as I've put some boundaries, um, into my business, because, uh, you know, back in the day I've always been a perfectionist, which I would've laughed at anyone that told me. But if I'm working to a two in the morning, that's perfectionism.
Christine: Yes.
Jane: You know?
Jane: So,
Emily: That does make sense because when you decide to put a boundary in place, you have had suddenly the clarity that you no longer want to tolerate this study.
Jane: Absolutely, yes. So whether it's tolerate, whether it's giving yourself some time off 'cause you're allowed to stop work just like everybody else is allowed to.
Jane: Or the flip side of that is that I worked. You know, last night, Sunday night had a great time. It was so much fun because that's when I felt really energized and full of lots of energy and I'm allowed to do that. So, um, yeah, you can, the boundaries are just the clarity that you need to like, find the space that you need.
Jane: Yeah. Um, and it answers a lot of questions.
Emily: It does. Yeah. And I think it also. Goes or works around the guilt and expectation element as well.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: You know, the guilt of, I'm not working because I'm the same as you.
Emily: Mm-hmm. I
Emily: will very much flow when I feel like it.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And when I know I can, like, if I'm in the right mindset to get shit done, that's when I pump out 60 million things.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Because I'm like, yep, I want it. Let's go. And my head's in the right place. But I also have learned for myself over the time that if I'm not feeling it, like I was building some a document last night. I was showing Chris this morning and I was like, don't look at the cover page.
Christine: Wasn't feeling it, and it's just got a word on it
Emily: and I'm like, next.
Jane: Yes. But I really love that you could work through that because there was a time for myself that I wouldn't have been able to work past that.
Emily: Yeah. It's taken me a long time to learn how to flow with how I feel, and also the flexibility of having my own business.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And not. Living to other people's expectations, I think has been a helpful part of that.
Jane: Whoa.
Emily: It's difficult when you
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: You're in a workplace and you are being
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, measured in, 'cause even when I worked full time, I, God, I was that person that, again, not a morning person as we both are, I would literally get to work when they expected me to. So what, like eight 30? I was always there at 8 45.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And then I, they was, I needed to get breakfast 'cause you know
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: Who has time to have breakfast before we go to work? Only crazy people.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And so I would then spend the next. What, like 45 minutes to an hour and a half getting breakfast, having saying cup tea, saying hi everyone tea, setting my desk up and like fluffing it a little bit and then I'd be like, fuck, it's 10 o'clock better get some work
Jane: better get some work done.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: But you know what? You put me at home in my own place, I'll be working from eight 30.
Jane: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily: Because I don't have to fuck around any of that shit.
Jane: There's no commute either.
Emily: I don't even star me on the commute. There's no way I'm ever going back into an office, ever.
Jane: I think what you are talking about is creating work rhythms basically, and um, boundaries that support
Emily: Yes.
Jane: Those rhythms. So, um. I, I'm not sure if I touched on before, but, um, understanding your own rhythms
Christine: Yeah.
Jane: Is basically, um, the mindset change that really like did it for me. Um, so one of the biggest shifts that I made was realizing that, like you just said, productivity. Doesn't have to be nine to five, right?
Jane: It can be wherever, um, wherever it fits in with you. And it certainly doesn't have to look like everybody else. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I thrive in the afternoons and the evenings. Um, and so that is when I take my client meetings, I do my client work, um, I push out a lot of creative work like you were just saying.
Jane: And, um, I coupled fair bit of slack from it.
Emily: But I love when I get messages 1130 from you. I'm like, she's my girl because I'm there like, oh yeah, cool. Just immediately fine. I'm like, I love, this is exactly, I'm working
Jane: constantly forcing early meetings on me, and I hate it.
Emily: I hate it.
Jane: But my, my answer to that is I'm not at my best and I don't want you to pay for me when I'm not at my best.
Christine: Yes, absolutely.
Jane: So. You can have some, some prep work from me at nine in the morning, if you like. Yeah. But, um, yeah, it's my perfection is a one at the Yeah.
Christine: Where I'm different. I would prefer, well, I mean, not early morning meetings. I, I kind of like that sweet spot of, I get underway at 10 o'clock.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Um, and I prefer an afternoon meeting because actually I.
Christine: I have that brain fog thing.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And the, the real productivity dies a little bit. So a meeting actually is a really good solution because I am very present.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: In a meeting I take minutes, I can talk and add value, but if it's three o'clock in the afternoon and I'm just gotta do. Work solo. My mind goes, yeah, shift goes.
Christine: I lose the plot.
Emily: Which works for me too, thankfully. 'cause Chris and I, the, the nice part about that is me understanding mind rhythm, Chris, understanding hers, having to work that together.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Yeah. Is always a bit tricky. But again, we've been blessed that we are reasonably synced. Reason, so I'm like, I'm.
Emily: Fine to do that. You know, and there's nights where Chris will work late and there's nights where she's not. I've said a few times do not respond. No. Like I'm sending it to you so I know I've sent it to you so I'm not forgetting. But please don't respond to it whenever you're back. There's no pressure to do that.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: We worked through that. Yeah, absolutely.
Christine: And that was, and that, that took a while to work through.
Emily: It did. Yeah.
Jane: Absolutely. Some of my emails let me schedule a send, which is what I try to do.
Christine: I love schedule.
Jane: Yeah, and some of them don't, which is
Emily: I hate that.
Jane: Yes. When I just have to send it off and say, please don't reply, but if this is not out of my inbox, yes.
Emily: If anyone ever gets an email from me at 8:00 AM it's 1000% schedule because I'm not awake to be sending that. Yes,
Jane: absolutely.
Emily: I laugh. Even just coming up here this morning, a friend of mine was like, God, you're off early, and I was like, I know, right?
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Yeah. Yes. What is this?
Jane: I know. It's awful.
Emily: Even my kids, they're walking out the door at the same time.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: They kept kind of kept staring at me like. What are you doing? Yeah, you're not in bed.
Christine: I know. I left home before the sun and air this morning and that hasn't happened in a very long time.
Jane: Oh my goodness. Look at us. I know we're killing it today. Come three o'clock. We're mindset. What a mindset change for us today.
Jane: Yes. We can do anything.
Emily: I fundamentally hate the word failure.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: It's funny, I was actually sitting at the Newcastle conference last year.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I think it was the accountants who were really cool.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And they were talking about failure, and it's like, I know there's the acronym that you can put to failure, but I.
Emily: Well, like, and I think they were saying something along the lines of like, oh, think of like a failure of yours. I'm like, I actually can't, because in my mind it's not a fail.
Jane: I'm on the same page. It's as you,
Christine: um, it's a learning step.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: It's, uh, educational.
Emily: Yeah.
Jane: Or didn't quite work out. It,
Emily: you don't, you are not failing at you.
Emily: You are fixing it. It's, you know, it's the trial and error piece.
Christine: Yeah, that's right. You're fucking around to find out.
Jane: I think. Instead of saying, I failed, or I can't do something because, um, I have so much experience with having a ADHD, it, it really is just a habit of me to say, well, how can I do that? How can I achieve that?
Jane: Or, here's a boundary, how will I get over it? Yep. So, yeah, I agree with you. I don't, I don't think that, um, having failure in your vocabulary is a good idea.
Emily: I just call it my stubbornness that I'll never admit that I've failed or anything because I'll just fucking die. I'll die on that hill, God forbid.
Jane: Do some things, not work out exactly how you want it,
Emily: but that's also life, you know?
Emily: Yeah. It changes. And I look at like our journey in. The last two years and it's been mammoth in a lot of ways.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I remember coming up to actually have a planning day with you, um, beginning of last year.
Jane: I remember that.
Emily: Wow. Shit changed so much since then. And driving, even driving back from that planning day.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: We were in the car going, actually, I think we need to redefine how we, um. How we elevated pitch our business. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And we completely changed it then. And we've gone through so many IT iterations since then as well.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Into something so entirely different. Yeah. And it's funny how. Like that, that's not failure, that's just
Jane: No, no.
Jane: What you um, described there is having a growth mindset. Yeah. So that's literally just going, okay, well, I'm gonna turn absolutely everything that comes across my plate into either a positive or a change or an opportunity to revise and review and. To try something different. Um, that's basically what it's all about.
Emily: Oh, good.
Jane: You've won. Great answer.
Emily: I know, I do though. Get to the point where I'm like, am I, am I doing, like I, I worry that I can't sit still very well, so I get worried that I want to change things up too much.
Jane: Yeah.
Emily: Which is where it's good having Chris. I should be like, calm, locked down, please. Just maybe not right now.
Jane: Well, I think that's. Just about, um, directing your creativity or the energy that you have into where it needs to be at that time. Absolutely. And sometimes you can't though, you know, there are days that, that you cannot be cajoled.
Emily: No, and I found outlets to help me with that too. Like I know, and I'm pretty sure I'm in a hyper fixation of books at the minute.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But yeah, I find them quite a good outlet.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: When I've got a lot of. Though I have to remind myself to stop letting the premise of my book reflect my behavior outside, like in my real life.
Jane: Oh my goodness. Okay.
Emily: You know, I find sometimes if it's a book about, like, I read Thriller, I read a bunch of different genres, but if I'm reading books about thrillers or there's like.
Emily: Anger or something in there, and it's like I get almost shitty at the book as I'm reading it. Like I, I really take on the emotion of it and then I find that I can be a bit snappy and then I'm like, Emily, the book's angry, not you.
Jane: Yeah, right.
Emily: Calm the fuck down. So I have to be careful sometimes how I read and how I.
Emily: Like how tired I am or whatever it might be while I'm reading. Like I'm very kind of emotive or, yeah.
Jane: Well it sounds like there's a,
Emily: I call it empathetic, but I don't know if you can be empathetic with a book.
Jane: Yeah, absolutely. Of course you can. Um, and I think that it sounds like there's a book inside of you waiting to come out inside.
Emily: There's several.
Christine: Absolutely.
Emily: I've got the amount of things in my head is like, I've already started writing bits and pieces.
Jane: Wow.
Christine: Yes.
Jane: Well, that's exciting. I mean, A DHD just basically means that your energy can fluctuate. Right? So, um, some days you can be, like you said. Deeply focused and full of ideas and other days it's, those things just feel impossible.
Jane: So my answer to that is let it, it's going to be okay. Um, and to give yourself some grace. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, if anything, through my entire A DHD journey, uh, being a woman in business for, actually this is my 20th year that I've had my own business, my ninth year as a virtual assistant, yes.
Christine: But 20th year.
Christine: Yeah. In business. I
Emily: feel like you've gotta make a big deal of that.
Jane: Yeah. Maybe I should. I had only just realized.
Christine: Yeah, I think you should. That's huge.
Jane: Well, I, you know, I had to actually go into business for myself because I am not cut out for the, um, traditional corporate nine to five. Yeah. And I had to work that out myself.
Jane: Um, that's really hard. Yeah, absolutely. So.
Emily: And also keeping your head on your shoulders while you find that out can be really, like, it can be demoralizing. And I can imagine that would be hard to keep your positivity and yourself.
Jane: Well, I guess they didn't yourself for some of those, those years.
Emily: Understandable.
Jane: Yeah. Being in the corporate world, at least for me Yes. Um, was overwhelming anxiety ridden. Yep. Um, depressing. Um, such the soul out of me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and not only that, being neurodivergent and. I haven't actually, um, I don't understand yet how these two connect, but, um, I had a very, very unpleasant time in the corporate world.
Jane: There was lots of toxicity, lots of harassment, lots of bullying, um, even sexually harassed at times.
Emily: Mm-hmm.
Jane: Um, and I just don't understand how those two connect yet, or whether they even do. But you know, there were also very overwhelming things that happened to me in the workplace, which means that I wasn't meant for a traditional workplace either.
Jane: So.
Emily: Yeah, I've had very similar experiences,
Jane: but why we need to find the connection here.
Emily: I think it.
Jane: Because the lack of boundaries at first.
Emily: Well, I think there's that, and I think, you know, I think it's standing out
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: As well.
Jane: That's very true. Oh my goodness. And
Emily: I think, you know, I've, no matter how many times of my life I've done exactly that.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And tried to, to blend in and, and be part of the crowd,
Jane: which you shrink yourself. Right.
Emily: Yeah. I've, I mean, I've spent a lot of my career also being told I'm too opinionated, I'm stubborn.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I'm outspoken, I'm a problem.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Because I won't just sit back and take the status quo.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: You know, and I've always found that quite insulting.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But it's something that I now see as like, I'm, I'm attaching the term disruptor.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: To it.
Jane: Okay.
Emily: And it's funny.
Jane: That's positive.
Emily: It is positive. And it's, we've had a couple of conversations recently with people ab about the term of disrupting.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And um. Our latest podcast episode that actually has just gone live today, um, was with an amazing, um, woman called Rebecca Lambert.
Emily: And she talks about, um, like multifaceted careers
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: And also, um, the. You know, not, not staying quiet.
Christine: Yeah.
Emily: And the disruption came up in that too.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I was saying to the girls on, in that interview that I actually had an old boss of mine from my last proper corporate job.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And he like proper in the office nine to five, the whole shebang before like virtual work or remote working or working from home was a thing.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, and he's been like low key watching what I do through LinkedIn. Um, and we were just chatting back and forth and, and whatever, and he was like, I always knew you'd be. Disruptive.
Jane: Wow.
Emily: And at first I was like, I was pretty, I was good.
Jane: No, actually something that's a positive,
Christine: it's a positive.
Emily: Yeah. It took me a minute to be like, yeah, I am.
Jane: Yeah, absolutely.
Christine: So thinking that, you know, like, you know, you, you're not made for the corporate world.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: We had a conversation, um, with a, um, pharmacist the other day be
Emily: Yeah, that was really interesting.
Christine: So she's a pharmacist by. Trade qualification, but she specializes in perimenopause and menopause.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: And she's going to be a future podcast guest, but what she was talking about was for the corporate world, she often goes in and does sessions in a workplace.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Because workplaces, you know, yes. Sometimes you might have, in different operations, you might have a prayer room. Depending on, you know, your, your, um, religious, your religion base of your demographic of your employees.
Christine: You might have a feeding room for mothers, but she was talking about spaces and allowances for women
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: Going through perimenopause because it does impact. So I'm thinking, you know, yes. People, neurodivergent people.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: You know, the allowances in a workplace.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: You know, there's must, there's.
Jane: There's nothing.
Emily: Nothing.
Christine: There's nothing. Yeah.
Jane: Um, and, and what could they be? You know,
Emily: the problem also becomes management because you can have a company that mandates things or has the ability to have allowances. Yeah. But if you have the wrong manager,
Christine: yes. Oh, absolutely.
Emily: It doesn't matter. You're fucked.
Christine: Yeah.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: So had lunch with a girlfriend yesterday and she was talking about, um, having to employ. Somebody for a particular job. And you know, she's vowed that she just doesn't wanna deal with any of the Gen Xs because they were up to an hour late every day now. Um, and so what
Christine: aren't we Gen
Jane: X,
Emily: um, I'm a millennial.
Christine: Oh yeah. We're gen, we're Gen X. So, sorry, what's the one after millennials?
Jane: Z.
Emily: Z,
Christine: sorry. Z. They were Z, sorry,
Emily: not us,
Christine: but they, you know, she went through two people, never kept the job.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Because constantly. Late and I'm thinking
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: Not that we would, you know about when you identify
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: Like, you know, and you know, organizations to make allowances.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: I can't be at work at nine o'clock
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: Or eight 30, but I can come in at 10 and I can work solidly from
Jane: mm-hmm.
Christine: There so changes and I know that, again,
Emily: it's tricky.
Christine: You have to have. You have to have sympathetic, empathetic management levels.
Emily: It's just tricky though, 'cause like I, I look at my husband's business, so they never worked from home until Covid.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And now they have, um, shifted into a hybrid model. However, his department head is dictating his, uh, everything under him. And that is not the same as what the rest of the company can do. And I take issue with that because it's not, it's not okay.
Jane: No, it's not.
Emily: But there are like. One of my husband's best mates, he much prefers to be in the office full time.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: My husband does two days a week. I think that's a healthy balance for him. He needs the office time, but he also likes to be able to be home one or two days. Yep. Um, he doesn't mind it, but if he doesn't do it, he also doesn't mind it either.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I mean, I prefer it 'cause I need the help with the kids, but like whatever.
Jane: Absolutely.
Emily: But I feel there's been, during Covid there was people in their business who they then decided quite quickly that once they were. Allowed to go back in the office, were never allowed to work from home again.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Because they could see that they weren't doing it properly. Yeah, yeah. And the problem is, even if you make allowances for people like that, you have to be careful that it's not, you need to standardize things in for e equity.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Christine: Yeah.
Emily: Um, but you're gonna have people that take advantage and take the piss out. Oh, I know. And that's where it gets really hard.
Jane: Um, and I don't think that neurodivergent people are the problem, to be honest.
Emily: It's everyone else
Jane: I can smash out, you know, every day's worth of work in a couple of hours.
Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emily: Exactly right. And you can usually find a period within the nine to five that works, but let people, I think it's the flexibility, like if you're gonna be late, and I see it a lot as a mom with young kids too, needing that flexibility. Like, I couldn't go back in the office 'cause I, one, I don't want to pay for afterschool care.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But I also wanna be there for my kids.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: As well.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: So for me to, I had to go to, um, north Sydney a few weeks back to go into the office at North Sydney. By the time I bloody well got there, I was like, fuck me. This commute, commute is ridiculous.
Jane: How did you ever get any work done before?
Emily: Oh, I dunno. Like honestly, by the time I sat down I was like, I need a fuck it nap. That was a mission and I had a few meetings and then I was like, okay, now I can do some work. And then I was like, you know what, it's almost four o'clock. Yeah. I need to go so I don't get stuck in peak hour. Yes. Yeah. So I did like.
Emily: Five minutes of work and then got back on the train.
Jane: Oh my goodness.
Emily: I was like, this was such a fucking waste.
Jane: Wow.
Emily: If I had just sat in my office at home. And I would've gotten like five times the amount of work done.
Jane: Yeah.
Emily: But it was like, I just sit there going, how do people do this?
Jane: I don't know.
Emily: Like, this isn't functionality to me.
Jane: I think you've brought up like three different issues, though. You've brought up like the difference with generations of how they work. Mm-hmm. Yes. You've brought up the difference between neurotypicals and neuro divergent people. Um, and you've just also brought up the, the difference between like hybrid and remote work and working from an office,
Emily: the whole thing.
Jane: Oh, yes. Yeah, we could touch on a lot of things there.
Christine: I know we're getting quite off, uh, of, um, points where we're, you know, and we only have a certain amount of time for this, and I have,
Emily: we've totally tangented your beautiful notes, Jane.
Christine: Yes, I know.
Emily: Really. Sorry.
Jane: Forget about it. I don't need to talk about, anyway,
Emily: we never keep it, we never keep it on track.
Christine: And here Jane is here back for the. 17th time, because we can,
Emily: there will be another part. Yeah,
Emily: it has to be. 'cause I find I, I love the way you think and I think it's really, I really love hearing you talk about it 'cause it's really interesting and I think it's very beneficial for lot of people.
Jane: Thank you.
Jane: I think about a thousand things at once.
Emily: Yeah, me too.
Jane: Which is why I have my iPad and I've written it all.
Christine: Yeah, no, no, absolutely.
Emily: It has multiple notebooks. Yes.
Christine: Yes. So, so what's, what's the practical, what's the things that keep you focused, um, that help you get through your day that potentially. Could help other people understand a little bit.
Jane: Yeah. But really it's about, like we just touched on before about the rhythms.
Christine: Yes.
Jane: About your own rhythms.
Christine: Yeah. I love
Jane: whether you are neurotypical or neurodivergent. It's, and it's not that I do not have structure in my life, even though as.
Jane: Someone with a DHD,
Emily: it just looks different.
Jane: I abhor structure because I love spontaneity and creativity, but I do have structure. It just looks very different.
Emily: Do you find you need it though? Like, you know, I find like I, I'm the same. I don't like you tell me to do something.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Or if I have a reoccurring meeting.
Emily: Give me two minutes of that and I'll fucking hate it.
Jane: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily: But I find I need to have,
Jane: but if you went for a walk during one of those meetings or what if you I could.
Emily: Oh God. I would.
Jane: I mean, should, so you do need to change a couple of things up. You need a little bit of, bit of variety for sure.
Jane: Yeah. But for me, I stand by a couple of things, and this is basically to protect my nervous system. Yes. I went through years of. Not protecting my nervous system. So this is something as a postmenopausal woman as well, we need to do. And that's basically, um, I set up my day to, uh, to just to be best for myself.
Jane: And so I had a slow morning routine. Yeah. And this is basically if there's one thing that you can take away from today, it's my slow morning routine. Got it. And it means waking up without an alarm.
Emily: Yes. I love doing that.
Jane: It means no mobile phone and no calls. Yes. It means no rushing. Yeah.
Emily: Yeah. I hate rushing.
Jane: Um, and just, just giving myself the space to land softly. Yes. For my workday, which is around 11:00 AM Yes. I start work so I can start supporting others. Yep. Yep. So it's basically just a little kind of slow morning routine. Just, you know, waking up slowly, not rushing so that I can then rush through the rest of the day.
Emily: Well down pack the rest of the day.
Jane: Done. That's right. Yeah. Love. Yeah, love that. It really, really makes a difference because, um, yeah, otherwise you'll break. Yes. Yeah.
Christine: Yes you will. Yep.
Emily: I love that to it. I'm a big no, no, um, alarm girl.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like I made my husband remember to wake me up this morning.
Jane: My husband did this morning as well.
Jane: Oh.
Emily: But often, man. Exactly. And I often get. He wakes me up anyway when he gets up to do things, like he'll get up and have a shower and especially the office days, I can tell when it's not an office day 'cause he doesn't get out of bed and I'm there going, oh my God, are you late for something? Um, but he, as the movement of him around like that usually wakes me up.
Emily: But I find, and I said to him this morning, I find that if I have to get up before seven
Jane: mm-hmm.
Emily: I feel physically sick. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel like I'm gonna vomit.
Jane: It's gut wrenching.
Emily: And he's like, really? And like, like literally I feel so unwell.
Jane: I had this conversation with my husband last night. He said, you just don't want to.
Jane: I'm like, no, no. I do want to. Yeah, I can't.
Emily: Exactly. I know. And now that I'm like, when I was standing there watching the kids go, I'm like, this is good. I like being ready to go this early. I'm like, but it's that, it's, I also find it really hard to get in the shower.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Um, like it's like. Like, I physically have to force myself to go through that routine of like showering and putting my makeup on, like doing all that.
Jane: But that's because it's not just having a shower. It is um, getting undressed. It's turning the tap on, it's finding a towel. It's what am I gonna wear afterwards? It's actually an entire I had this morning. As long as it's not, yeah. Not an everything shower. Yeah. That's why, you know, someone like you, um, could perhaps just shower at night.
Jane: Done.
Emily: I've tried that too and I find like I, that does work for me when I do it, except for I don't like my hair, but that's another problem. But I find though I'm so used to morning showering that it wakes me up.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like I get alert from it. So I find going to bed, like that's tricky.
Jane: So maybe a face spray with energizing face spray wake you up instead.
Emily: This is true. You know what I do in the morning?
Jane: Things you could do.
Emily: I iron.
Jane: Ooh.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand it either.
Emily: Most people don't like ironing, but I really like it 'cause I get, I feel like I've achieved something.
Jane: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like it's a dopamine hit. Like I, and I always have eye iron, everything, so the pile's quite large at the minute.
Emily: So I will stand there and iron stuff until I'm like, 'cause I'm also one of those people that if I'm gonna get hot and sweaty and gross, I'm gonna do it before I've showered.
Jane: Oh, that goes with without saying.
Emily: Yeah. So I've, I'll scrub the house and everything in my pajamas, but I'll iron a bit, even if I'm not doing much, I'll just do like three or four and then I'm kind of like.
Emily: I've, I've now achieved something, so if it now takes me 50 years to get ready, I've already achieved something. So it's okay. It's like I'm justifying it to myself.
Jane: Okay.
Emily: It's weird. It's my weird little thing time
Jane: look, I dunno to say about that.
Emily: Fair enough. No, it's just my little twerk.
Christine: No, that's right.
Jane: Well, look, we, we need to, um, wrap this up, but Chris has our brand spanking new question.
Christine: I do. I really do. Jane. Hmm. What's your bucket list of travel destination?
Emily: That's a good one.
Jane: Oh my goodness. I've actually,
Emily: and we have to come with you.
Jane: I've actually, um, done a, a fair bit of traveling. You have come as an A DHD girl.
Jane: Spontaneity is my middle name. Um, but there is one place that I love more than anywhere in the world that I would just love to go and live. Yes. And that is Copenhagen in Denmark.
Emily: That's awesome.
Jane: I was fortunate enough to go there.
Emily: You recently, right?
Jane: It's two years ago.
Emily: Okay. Not, no.
Jane: Well flies
Emily: I feel like the last time I saw you travel.
Christine: Yes.
Jane: Um, I went there about two years ago and as soon as I went into the city on my little bicycle, yes. With my pretty little dress on, I just felt at home I thought. Like where, where have these people been? All of my life. Yeah.
Emily: Stop you from moving there.
Jane: Well, nothing really. No, no. My Swedish husband lives 10 minutes over the water.
Jane: Yeah. So we could definitely go. No. So, um, although I've been there, um, I just dream of going back. Yes, yes. Lovely. It's a good place I'd like to go too. Yeah.
Christine: I haven't been to Copen Har, but it is on a list. And I have, you know, drool over lots of photos of it.
Jane: It's just beautiful. The pastries, the riding thing.
Christine: I don't want the bike rider.
Jane: Yes you do.
Christine: I'm not a good bike rider.
Jane: Yeah, it's so funny because, um, just a tiny little anecdote. Yes. So I went there with my Swedish husband and we were there for about four or five days. And it wasn't until the last day or even when we left that I actually realized because Sweden and Denmark.
Jane: Next to each other. They're neighbors. I didn't realize he didn't understand the language for those four or five days. I just assumed these both were same. Yes, I know one Danish and one Swedish, but I just thought they were very similar. I
Emily: think it's Swedish and Norwegian. They have like a middle language.
Emily: Um, I went to school with a few of them and they had like this, I don't know if I can't remember which one it was, nor Norwegian and. I dunno. It was like a middle language. It was like half-a, half-a. And they could like kind of, because I watching think might be because
Christine: think might in English or something
Emily: a little bit.
Emily: And I was like, how are you two? Like aren't you from different places?
Jane: I think they can actually understand each other, but the deanes in the middle cannot. And so, so I just let him do everything the whole time. It was wonderful. That's, I love that. Love that. That's fantastic.
Emily: Well, thank you so much for coming again, even though we ed you like crazy. So we'll probably have to do a part four, part five, part six.
Emily: Um, we love you very much, our lovely Jane.
Emily: Thank you
Jane: very much for having me. Been a pleasure. Woo,
Christine: pleasure. Thank you.
